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ter, though they be very learned ly allege it, as an exception against in the law, for they are not versed Mr. Seymour, that he was a privy in law of parliament; that is an- counsellor, and therefore excepted other thing. Lord Coke, though against him for being speaker. a very learned lawyer, was much Sir John Cloberry.] I am glad mistaken in law of parliament: to see the house in so excellent a Mr. Prynne has rectified him in temper to hear a debate of as several miftakes. In the journal, great a concernmeut as can come 1 king James, you will find that before you. First it is faid, That the king did think, that the usual the speaker ought to be presented petitions, at the beginning of a by some of the privy council,' parliament, of accets to his per- but I take to be the right of every lon, &c. were only acts of grace, member to present whom he pleases. and that he might deny them; but Secondly, ? Whether it be our the house humbly represented to undoubted right ?' That is unhim, “That those things were dubitable, the modification of the petitions of right, and not of choice. It has been asserted by grace. We have a gracious prince, the master of the Rolls, and he is and I hope he will not diminith pleased to call the presenting of a our rights and privileges--petitions îpeaker to the king, a compliof right every ordinary person ment only;' which doctrine, if claims. If a man be dispossessed true, then we have a consummate of his eltate, he moves the court speaker; as in materia prima there by way of petition of right, and is a capacity of receiving various the king cannot deny writs of forms. The choice of the speaker. etror, and petitions of right, when is our undoubted right, but the demanded. In R. II's time, there manner totally and integrally in is no mention upon record, that our choice. I will begin with Mr. the house attended the king, be Seymour, who fat in the chair but cause the king can take notice of a while; he made a modest excuse, no proceeding of the house, till and then said, “ The house cannot the house communicates it to him. chuse a speaker but by the king's apThe commons usually gave notice probation, and he hoped that would to the king of their choice of a be the only thing the king would speaker, that the king might know deny this house. Then, as foon who applied to him. I doubt not as the king's negative came down but the king is as gracious as his upon Mr. Seymour, it was thought grand father was, and will be con an infringement of your privivinced of our right in the matter leges. There were never any fueh of a speaker.

precedents as for us to adhere to Mr. Goring.) Some worthy per our first choice.

In Hen. VI's fons have taken pains to search time, the speaker was refused, precedents. I would know, whe- his own request (Popham.) The ther any person but a privy coun law is tender of creating a differfellor usually proposes a speaker ? ence between the king and his And then the king, without doubt, people, and it may be the king knows before-hand who the speaker will not deny any law you advise k t. I have heard gentiemen former- him, only under this modification,

T 3

4 That

at

mour

• That he has employment for We carry the speaker up to the Mr. Seymour.' The ceremony of lords bar, to let the king know excufing was omitted by Mr. Sey- whom we have made choice of;

Now you will reduce the and he is as much accomplished to king to fuch a strait, as either to do our work, to collect debates for give up his prerogative, or dif a question, that every man may content his people. I will not saysay aye or no, clearly to the quethat we have power in this matter; ftion, as if he was presented to the but that we have right is not yet king, &c. It is not how things proved. I had rather give my will be construed elsewhere, but eyes, hands, and head, than part naturally here. When I had the with this power, if it be your honour to serve here as speaker, in right; but if it be a flower of the the convention, [1660] (though crown, I would rather die than the king called it a parliament, it take it away. Ablot is no blot till it has not had since so great a repube bit. Therefore I move, that the tation,) I was then weak in my thing may be thoroughly debated, health ; but thus much I rememand see our own title to it, and not ber, that when we were in decarry a dough-baked representation bates, before the king came hither, to the king, that we cannot maintain. I was commanded to wait upon

the king with the submission of the Soon after Sir John Cloberry had house, and after I had been at the made an end of his speech, some lords bar, &c. we had occasion to merrily-disposed gentlemen fent a carry up votes. If ever the speaker note from hand to hand about the had made excufe, and presented house, sealed up, with this super- himfelf for the king's approbation, scription : "To the right honour- the transport of joy for the king's able lord Cloberio, baron Dough- coming might have put us upon baked, earl of Confummation and it. Mr. William Pierpoint took Modifcation, marquis of Materia exceptions at what I then said at Prima. Frank Danby.'

the lords bar, viz. • That I had

not full order for what I said, and Sir Harbottle Grimstone. Some was too lavish of my tongue.' If thing fell from Claberry that does a speaker, carried up to the lords a little concern me, of a word house, as Mr. Seymour was, and Sipped from me, • That the pre- though he excused not the acceptsenting the speaker to the king ing of the employment, yet said, was a compliment, &c.' I spoke ! He stood for the king's approwhat I meant, viz. • That the bation,' which he was not inftruct. choice of a fpeaker is an act done ed to do, he might well be repriby the house, and there needed manded. I am willing to comply nothing more to be done. When with any expedient in this matter ; We are called by the authority of but I would not part with our right, the king's writ, surely it is to do Serjeant Maynard ] Gentlemen, some work, and I believe there I will tell you what I have obnever was more work to do than served in my time. Cloberry did. now. Nothing but an act of om well to distribute what he had to nipotence can carry us through it. discourse of ; but it is not now

season

was

seasonable to make a formal deter- called a compliment,' we may mination of the thing. When I be complimented out of our right, heard the question first, I thought and this speaker in his speech has it oue of all question, but it is not done it. I know not that ever so clear and satisfactory to me, any one speaker was refused by the though I am them the king's ser- king, nor ever any anciently that jeant, and so sworn to maintain desired approbation. Pardon me the king's prerogative.Hannibal if I say it, we have had such great ad portas, Catilina intra moenia. In disorders intra mænia, of sheriffs Haman's conspiracy against the double returns, &c. that these Jews, Ahasuerus gave them li- things spend your time; and your berty to speak for themselves, and enemies, and popery,

will

grow Haman was hanged upon the same upon you. Therefore I move, gallows he had prepared for Mor

that
you

will not wave your pridecai. But as to the point in que- vilege, nor determine the thing, ition, I had a clear opinion, led

but take such consideration in it by my lord Coke, of two hundred that you desert not your right, nor years practice, that in that time impose upon the king. I am afraid there no such thing as a of that objection against Mr. Seypublic speaker till 15 Edw. III, mour, his being of the privy counHe said so, but I find it not. cil He is so much

your

servant as 5 R. II. there was a presentment of to be your speaker. May not the å speaker. I do but observe this, king show you the reason why he though I do not make any con approves net of your choice, viz. clusion on one side or other. Some. • That he has designed him for times it is found that the speaker an embassy :'--As yet he has showgoes up to the lords house, and ed you no reason. I would not fo exercises his oratory in excusing much press upon the king, but himself, and sometimes not : but lay aside your right rather than never that the speaker desired the hazard him and the kingdom. king's approbation,anciently. This Sir Henry Capel.] Some rights. speaker, Seymour, after you have · are more in nature than others : chosen him, makes his excuse, and that cannot be denied. This right you refuse it, and he goes up to . of our speaker, &c. is so in its the king and makes it, and carries

What the speaker his excuse to another place --- This desires of the king, “ Access to is a breach of your privilege. That his perfon,' is in the nature of of Sir John Popham was a real parliament, whether it be asked, excuse, and there was a neceffityor no. Whether this be of that to constitute another fpeaker, for nature, now the commons have it is impoflible that a body of chose a speaker, that we have righe nature can be without a speaker, to him, &c. I offer uot to deterIt may be, I may change my opi- mine. Whatever that right is, vion with that modesty which be- there is a time of declaring that comes me. I know not what clearly right, and I think it the prudence to say in it. It is hard that it of the house not to declare it now fnould be the king's prerogative, the king is coming towards you. and yet never exerciled; and to be As to what is moved, to appoint

fome

1

own nature.

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fancy that the speaker is not made with that.

with that. I wonder that Mr. without the king's approbation; Seymour is absent; he knows not if so, we give up our right-Till what place to fit in, without difthe king approves, or rejects, it is pleasing the king. The king anhis choice of the speaker, and not swers your representation, that ours. I would have some gentle- this is losing time,' and there is man propose whether there may not nothing remaining upon your be an expedient in this case. books whom you have chosen for

Mr. Bennet.] This is playing {peaker (for till you are qualified at French hot-cockles. I would by the tests you can enter 10not, in this, gratify the designs of thing ;), but it is entered upon the ill men, who have thrown this lords books, " That your choice bone amongst us. This is to back of Mr.Seymour is discharged, and and mount the colt with a snaffle, you are directed to chufe another and then to bringhim on to a bitt and man.' And what privilege will curb. This great assembly is not to you gain by the expedient? When be bought nor fold, but, I fear, the the practice has been always with last was. It is an expedient, that Mr, you of chusing, you will get no Seymour comes not to the house; reputation by an expedient. his abfence is an expedient; but would address the king again in still aliert your right. I would not this, &c. and hope for success. have him that is named by the When secretary Williamson was privy council, (Meres) but some committed to the Tower, the last other,

parliament, the commons had an Sir Thomas Lee.] I never took answer, &c. and rougher things that for an expedient, that was a followed: the act for the milicia total quitting of your right. I was rejected. But if you address think, time is precious; but I do again, I hope the king will answer not think that if this matter be you by the advice of his council. not quieted, the parliament will be Mr. Vaughan.) Your question diffolved. I have seen answers is not now, whether you fhall infrom the king much blacker than fift upon Mr. Seymour for speaker, this. This case is of a very great &c. but your being called hither nature, and if once things of this to consult de arduis regni negotiis. kind come to be refined by di- When your privileges are invaded, stinctions in debate, we may refine what way have you to do what away the greatest privileges we you came hither for? I speak now have. One parliament called so because the parlianient is ruiningsoon after another has not been for Perhaps our prince is misinformied, some time. That called in 1640 and he does not look upon our fat but three weeks, and the king paper, nor consider it. Whatever repented half an hour after he had you do afterwards, press your pa: diffolved it, and then another was per now; but at the begii ning of called ; and there is no danger to a parliament, do not give up your the kingdom though we are sent right. away.

And wherein does a new Mr. Williams.] This is no lois parliament differ! They are the of time, but will be lots of people fill in another parliament, right,' if you infiit rot upon your and I hope no man wili be ala! med privileges. And plainly, if the

One

parliament, and was presented by dutiful as could be. Divers reus to your majesty as a person we presentations have been formerly conceived would every way be made to his majesty, upon several most acceptable to your majesty's occafions, and I did expect that we royal judgment: this being the should have had such an answer true ftate of the case, we do in all to this ; and we might reasonhumility lay it before your maje- ably expect as gracious an anfty's view, hoping that your ma- swer as formerly, there being jesty, upon due consideration of nothing but duty in it. But the former precedents, will rest satis- gentlemen that gave us this anfied with our proceedings, and will swer, would not let the king not think fit to deprive us of so ne- give us a direct answer, because cessary a member, by employing it would be under examination him in any other service; but to here. Therefore they have taken give us such a gracious answer, as this course. It seems, they think your majesty and your royal pre- it • loss of time to inform his deceffors have always done hereto- majesty of the ftate of the cafe fore, upon the like occasions; that about a speaker. But I would adfo we may, without more lofs of dress the king again. In the case. time, proceed to the dispatch of of the declaration, some time since, those important affairs, for which we did not make one address, but we are called hither, wherein we three, and had some rougher answers doubt not but we shall fo behave from his majesty than this. Let ourselves, as to give an ample testi us justify it to the world, that we mony to the whole world of our have done nothing, but in all duty duty and affection to your majesty's to maintain our rights. And I fervice, and of our care of the move, that we may address the peace and prosperity of your king- king, that he would please to take doms.'

our reprefentation into farther conOrdered, That Mr. Noel, Mr. fideration, and give us a gracious Powle, Lord Cavendish, Lord Ruf- answer. sel, Sir Robert Carr, and Sir John Lord Cavendishi] I am not of Ernly, do wait on his majesty with opinion that this interruption prothe said representation.

ceeds from the same counfels, &c. Who being returned, Mr. Powle --The last diffolved parliament reports his majesty's answer; which was uneasy to them; and in this, was to this effect:

here are too many men of quality « Gentlemen, All this is but loss of time; and of the crown. the one fide, therefore I command you to go I do not fear this will break this back to your house, and do as I parliament; and on the other side, have directed you.'

I would not gratify the designs of ill men.

It is most proper for us Debate.

now to consider, whether this thing Mr. Sacheverell.] I never knew will admit an expedient. The before that loch a representation speaker may be made a lord, a

• loss of time. I took this judge, or an ambassador; and that reprefentation co be as modeft and ends the dispute. Whereas' fome

men

was

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