Q. Does not the order require only what is come to their knowledge? A. Yes; but when this Houfe calls for fuch an account, we do not understand they can mean only the port of London, but also the out-ports. Order read. The words of limitation in the order (fo far as comes to their knowledge) relates only to the firft part of the order, and thefe may be prepared in two or three days. Withdrew. Mr. Burke faid, it had been always cuftomary to bring ac- Mr. Burke. counts before the Houfe, as far as they could be made up, and accompany them with reasons why the order could not be fully complied with; in which cafe, the House judged whether the reasons were fatisfactory; but to produce a few partial accounts of no moment, and hold all thofe 'back which were of confequence, was a conduct as infolent and contemptuous, as it was unprecedented. Lord North fpoke relative to the fate of a fimilar enquiry Ld. Northe in the other Houfe. He faid, after the matter had been taken up with great parade, and papers called for, it was dropped, because the noble Lord who moved it, found, on being better informed, that both the treasury and admiralty boards had acted perfectly right. Now the fame queftion, ftale as it is, is brought down here, and as in the other House he was well fatisfied, and forefaw it would end in nothing, it would meet with the fame fate here. Mr. Rigby faid, the matter was fet on foot purposely to Mr. Rigby. teaze and embarrass administration, and would, as in the other House, vanish in fmoke. Honourable T. Luttrell faid, he had no doubt of the gen- Hon. T. tleman's zeal in the good caufe in which he was embarked. Luttrell, It was his business, and that of his friends, to fmother this iniquitous traffic, and not fuffer it to caufe either fire or fmoke. But for his part, he hoped it would be probed to the bottom. That monopolies were always hateful and oppreffive, and ftill more fo, when exercifed under the colour of law. That the prefent was of the darkeft and worst com. plexion, and the enormity of it ftill heightened, by being employed to the baseft and most corrupt purposes. That he understood the licences were granted to obfcure, mean perfons, not known to trade to America, and probably, fhould the matter be probably fifted, it would be difcovered, that those pretended merchants, though the enquiry might end in nothing, were not thus favoured for nothing. VOL. IV. G The Mr. Stanley. The Houfe refolved itself into a committee, to enquire into the ufe which the commiffioners of the admiralty have made of the power to grant licences to fhips and veffels, given them by the act to prohibit all trade and intercourfe with certain colonies therein mentioned. Mr. Pulteney in the chair. Mr. Stanley, fecretary of the customs. Q. Whether the first licences granted by the admiralty were ever under the confideration of the commiffioners of the cuftoms? A. The board of cuftoms faid they had nothing to do with them, but to receive the licences when brought. Q. How came they to say fo? A. Because they were asked touching the form of the licences, and they said it must be settled by the admiraltyboard. Q. By whom were they asked? A. I believe fome of the merchants afked. The board faid, they had nothing to do with it in an official way; it came before the board from the collector outwards. He afked, what he fhould do with respect to the licences? The board faid, they were to be fettled by the admiralty. Q. When the collector applied to the commiffioners, did he ftate any doubts as to the legality of the licences? A. No; not that I remember. Q. Were the licences produced to the commiffioners by the collector outwards when he applied for information? A. No; the commiffioners never faw the licences. Q. Did the matter never come under the confideration of the board in any other shape? A. No; except that there was a letter wrote by Mr. Jackfon from the admiralty, defiring the licences to be sent back. Q. What was the purport of that letter? A. That they were too general; therefore it was defired that they might be fent back. Q. Did the commiffioners of the customs take any opinion as to the legality of those licences? A. No. Q. Did the commiffioners of the cuftoms receive any orders from the treasury, refpecting any drawbacks to be allowed on any goods exported under thefe licences? A. There A. There was one warrant to that purpose; it was to allow a drawback on some tobacco. Q. Had no application been made before to the commiffioners with refpect to a drawback? A. No. Q. Not from the merchants? A. No. Q. Was there no official application made to the board? A. The deputy collector outwards made an application; his name is Bates. Q. Was there not fome doubts at the custom-house with regard to admitting the entry of fome goods included in the licences as warranted by the act of Parliament ? A. I don't know that there was. Q. Does he not know that there was such a doubt? A. That question the collector outwards will anfwer better. I can't fay. The manner of proceeding is this: If any doubts arife, they are always delivered in writing to the commiffioners, and muft have been referred to the folicitor of the customs. The collector outwards would have put it in writing, and delivered it to the folicitor; and he would have made his report to the board. Q. Was there no fuch writing? Q. Were there not fome doubts about that tobacco? A. There might be; I can't say; it does not come officially before me. Q. Is it ufual for the treasury to fend orders to the commiffioners about matters not fent to them by the treasury? A. Yes. Q. Have you the order refpecting the tobacco about you? Q. What was the contents of that order, and the occafion of it? A. I think it was an order for allowing a drawback on the tobacco. Q. Was that tobacco part of the cargo of the fubfcription fhip? A. I can't fay. I am not the proper officer. Q. Does he know whether this order was the only one for allowing a drawback? A. I believe it is the only one; I know of no others. G 2 Q. Whether 1 Q. Whether there are any entries of goods and merchandize outwards to North America, Canada and Nova Scotia excepted, which have been made at the port of London, or any other port within Great-Britain or Ireland, or any cockets or permits paffed for fhipping of goods into any fhips taken into his Majefty's fervice, bound to North America, fince paffing the prohibitory act, which have come to the knowledge of the commiffioners of the customs? A. Not of the fpecific quantities. Q. Have any fuch entries, cockets, or permits, come to their knowledge? A. We know licences have been granted, and goods must have been shipped in confequence of them. Q. Do you know of any fuch entries made? A. I believe there have, but I don't know it. Q. Whether the commiffioners of the cuftoms know any thing of any entries from the port of London, except from the report of the proper officers ? A. No; we know nothing except from the report of the officers. If any particular account is called for by this Houfe, when the order comes it is fent to the proper officer in the port of London; and letters are alfo written to the 71 out-ports to fend up returns agreeable to the order of the House. Q. Have any fuch returns been received at the customhoufe from the port of London, or elsewhere? A. No; there have been no orders for them. Q. Have any been received? A. No; not to my knowledge. Q. Are there any minutes in the custom-house books, relating to fending goods to America, fince the prohibitory act? A. It is impoffible for me to fay: not that I know of. Q. When was the letter of Mr. Robinson, dated 15th March, received at the cuftom-house? .A. The next day I suppose; it will appear in the minutes of the cuftom-house. Q.. Suppofe the letter wrote on a Friday? A. Then it appears on the Saturday's minutes. Q. Has any thing been done at the custom-house in confequence of the order of this House of Monday laft › A. On the minutes of yesterday there was an order to prepare, the account, and letters ordered to be fent to the out-ports for the fame purpose. Withdrew. Mr. Mr. William Bates, deputy collector outwards of the port Mr. William of London. Q. In the courfe of office at the custom-house were the licences firft brought to you? A. Yes. Q. On feeing thofe licences did you make any objections to them? A. Mr. Greenwood firft brought licences to me, and I told him it was neceffary to apply to the commiffioners for inftructions. Mr. Greenwood was agent to the perfon who had the licences. Q. Did you apply to the commiffioners. A. Yes. Q. What was the confequence? A. The commiffioners faid, that they should not trouble themselves with it, as the proceedings were pointed out by law. Q. Had you found any objection to them in point of law? A. No; but I thought it was neceffary to have directions from the board. Q. Did you think the licences were agreeable to law? Q. Did you make any objections to any licence in particular? A. One entry was prefented by Mr. Watlington, which I thought did not agree with the licence, and therefore I refused it. Q. State the circumftances of that entry? A. The goods mentioned in the entry did not feem to correfpond with the schedule annexed to the licence: there was a good deal of difference between them, and I think he took back the schedule, and got it amended. Q. Where did he get it amended? A. I imagine at the admiralty. Q. Upon what article of merchandize did this difference happen? A. I don't recollect. Q. Does he recollect any thing about a parcel of teas? A. There was an entry of tea to be shipped on board the Jamefon and Peggy. The licence expreffed tea and grocery, of the value of 1000; the tea alone was of more value, therefore I refused it. Q. What was the value of the tea? Bates. |