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was assured by them all, that he need Lord North owned that he had written De under no apprehensions on that score, that letter, that if there was any blame in is the noble lord at the head of the Trea- it, it ought to be thrown on him, and he ury had declared to the whole House, on was censurable for it; that the power being ther occasions, and particularly in the vested in him, he was certainly answerable case of colonel Luttrell, that he never did , for the abuse of it. He then severely 10% ever would refuse any of the vacating censured the noble lord to whom he had laces to any gentleman who should apply written that letter, and Mr. Bayly for proor them, whatever side of the House he | ducing and reading it in the House, as a hould happen to be on, and that this breach of common decency and confiras his constant rule in such cases. In dence; however as there was nothing ull reliance, therefore, on so ample a de. blameable in it he had no objection to the laration, especially from a minister who producing it. That he had made it a rule ras so frequently boasting of his word in never to grant an opportunity of this nahat House, he posted away directly for ture to any person to oppose his friends. hat borough, as no time was then to be That especially in the present case he was ost, his opponent having gone before, more averse to it, as at the general election nd as soon as he got there, he applied to Mr. Mayor had the majority of votes, and be minister, through a noble friend of his was only rejected as being sheriff at the 1 town, for one of the vacating places; time. That there was all the reason to ut to his inexpressible astonishment, an think that if he had set Mr. Bayly at linswer was returned by the minister to his berty, it would only have been a vexatious oble friend, directly contrary to the above opposition. That he was not personally eclaration; and as the letter containing known to Mr. Mayor, but then that genhat answer was not to be considered in a tleman had intitled himself to his friendprivate, but of a public and very interest- ship by shewing himself a strenuous supog nature, he begged leave to lay it be- porter of the honour and dignity of this ore the House. TMr. Bayly then read country, in concurring with the present he letter, in which was contained the fol- American measures. He denied that he owing paragraph ; “ I have made it my had ever made a promise to grant the konstant rule to resist every application of Chiltern Hundreds to any member who hat kind, where any gentleman entitled should ask for them. o my friendship would have been preju- Mr. Fox said, he had doubts how to liced by my compliance. Mr. Mayor vote on the present question. That he did rould, therefore, have just occasion to not approve much of opening a door to omplain of my conduct towards him, if I | innovations in the constitution; but on the hould make his case an exception to my other hand, as the minister had shewn so eneral rule.”] Mr. Bayly, after having declared a partiality for those who voted ead this letter, made no comment upon with him for American measures, if any 1, as thinking none necessary; but only thing he was inclined rather to bring in pplied it to the subject in debate, by sub- the Bill. He was severe on lord North's nitting it to the House, whether such an xample from such a minister did not . “ Downing-street, March 9, 1775. early demonstrate the necessity for the
“ My lord; egulation proposed.*
" It gives me great concern that I am not
able to comply with Mr. Bayly's request. * Shortly after this debate, the following
The cases have certainly been very few, in etters were laid before the public :
which I have excused myself from graping “My lord; Hill-street, Thursday
vacated offices to members of parliament; but " Haring this moment received a letter
I have made it my constant rule to resist every rom Mr. Bayly, desiring me to present his
application of that kind, where any gentleman espectful compliments to your lordsbip, aud to
entitled to my friendship would have been preequest you'll permit bim to vacate his seat for
judiced by my compliance. Mr: Mayor would, be borongb of Westbury, by immediately
therefore, have just reason to complain of my Tanting him the Chiltern Hundred; I fatter
conduct towards him, if I should make bis hyself your lordship will excuse my giving
case an exception to my general rule. I trust lou this trouble. I am, my lord, &c.
in your lordship's equity, and in Mr. Bayly's,
that you will think me well justified in declin“ ABINGDON.”
ing to obey your commands upon this orcasion, "Mr. Bayly is now contesting afresh the which I assure you I shall do with great pleallection at Abingdon, with his late opponent sure, whenever it is in my power. I am, &c.
« NORTH." (VOL. XVIII.]
1 [2 E]
friendship, which he observed he had the public. He was as severe upon, and eluded in the present letter, by calling it as strongly reprobated the American mea. 6 persons entitled to his friendship.” sures as lord North had applauded them;
Mr. Rigby urged how inconvenient it and insisted that lord North in holding that might be for members to have a power language had held this out as one more whenever they pleased, to desert the ser- douceur for those who would support him vice of the House. He instanced the fa. in that ruinous and mad career of violence mous secession in sir R. Walpole's time, that tended to alienate the colonies. and observed, that if it had been in their Sir George Savile said, that in his opipower to have vacated their seats altoge- nion it would have been almost criminal ther, it might have been attended with the in Mr. Bayly to have kept the letter seinconvenience of an almost general elec- cret. He had no knowledge of Mr. tion; that if on any popular question the Bayly, but should hereafter greatly esteem members of London and Middlesex were his conduct in bringing the letter forward. to vacate at once, even that might be at. It was not of a private but a public nature. tended with great commotion.
| He turned the arguments used by lord Mr. Burke ridiculed the notion of the North and Mr. Ellis against themselves. danger that might accrue at a moment of Lord John Cavendish, on the same side discontent, if a whole party should re- and nearly to the same purpose, thought solve all at once to surrender their seats, | Mr. Bayly could not dispense with secretand create a sort of general election ; at ing the letter the instant that men's minds were inflamed Mr. Bayly had thought it his duty to and agitated, it would, he said, be a strange | mention to the House these facts: if lord and unheard of revenge upon a minister, North had granted the Chiltern Hundreds, for his enemies to put themselves to the there would have been another member expence, trouble and risk of new elec. | for Abingdon. tions, and very different from the conduct Sir J. G. Griffin observed, that many of those who made the secession in sir R. arguments had been used by the hon. Walpole's time, whose standing aloof might gentleman (Mr. Rigby) not very fairly ha have drawn the public attention, and con- thought, to shew the improprieties of a sequently have raised an alarm in the mi- Bill not yet existing; and which, if herenister. He did not however run the after found in the Bill itself, might be very whole line of the proposition, and seemed good reasons to urge for not passing it to own the inconveniences of leaving it to but would be none in the present case. every man's own discretion to vacate his He should therefore be for introducing seat when he pleased: but thought it the Bill, to see if it could not be so framed enough to leave a member at liberty con- as to remove the present inconveniences currently with the possession of his seat, without incurring greater. to offer himself at any other place, and Mr. Acland was for the question, but then be permitted to make his choice for observed that the arguments of Mr. Rigby that place if he succeeded, just as was now were so forcible, that unless obviated, he done, and was done by himself in this par- should perhaps vote against the Bill. liament, being chosen for two places; Colonel Brrré, in a jocular manner, which mode was, he seemed to think, closed the debate. He observed, that liable to none of the inconveniences of though the noble lord had refused Mr. every man's vacating at his own discre- Bayly on his late application, yet he durs tion ; but as the progress of the Bill would say that if he would now apply a second admit every man to offer such plan as he time, the noble lord would immediately chose, in order to obviate the present mis- give him the Chiltern Hundreds ; he would chief of a power in the minister to give un- not have the minority think this favou due preferences to his own friends and fa- would be always granted to the friends o vourites, he declared strongly for bringing administration and denied to them; he in the Bill, on the principle that lord remembered when it had been granted t North had laid down, as meaning to give the gentleman who sat next the noble loro it as a reward to those only who voted (Mr. Wedderburn) and yet if that gen with him in the American measures. He tleman was now to apply for it, he had no said the House would not have borne at doubt it would be denied him; that as the any time, and ought not to bear, that every noble lord had declared the supporters a minister would dignify his own measures the present American measures to be with the honourable epithets of serving those who were intitled to the noble lord?
favours, he would propose to him an ac- /sessed of, previous to the commencement commodation they could have no objection of debates on the merits of the Bill. to, namely, that he should give all his va- The House concurring in sentiment, luable places, pensions, &c. to them, and evidence was agreed to be called, and the those of little or no value, as the Chiltern names of the witnesses being proposed, Hundreds, to the opposition. He asked, Lord Camden delivered it as his opinion, was the letter marked confidential ?" was that to save the House trouble, and afford it a private letter? It was not. The letter every possible information to the members, was of a public nature, and therefore the each witness in support of the allegations hon. gentleman was bound to read it. contained in the petition of the North The House divided. The Yeas went American merchants, should have such
questions propounded to him by Mr. BarTellers.
clay, who had signed the petitions, as he
might think tended to throw light on the Vers SMr. Grenville. (Mr. Thomas Townshend
subject. Lord Camden observed, that the
House of Commons had adopted this N Noes
SLord Lisburne - - - 299 method, and as for his part he professed NOES Mr. De Grey · ·
himself entirely unacquainted with the So it passed in the negative.
subject; he should be happy in having a
sensible man propose such trading quesDebate in the Lords on the Bill for tions as might be most likely to obtain restraining the Trade and Commerce of the from the several evidences the information New England Colonies.] March 15. Two required. petitions were presented against the Bill; The Earl of Suffolk declared, that what the one from the corporation of London, had fallen from the noble lord who spoke the other from certain merchants and last, contributed more than any thing to traders to North America, who conceived confirm him in the vote he should give, their interests likely to be affected by the for that the other House had permitted operation of this Bill. After the sheriffs Mr. Barclay to question the evidence, was had presented the petition from the cor- the very reason why he would wish to reporation of London,
probate the adoption of a practice which The Marquis of Rockingham observed, stood unsupported by a single instance with regard to the city petition, that it recorded in the Journals of the House. originated from a body, the members of His lordship therefore was for having the which demanded every attention, on ac- questions proposed in the usual mode by count of their official respectability. The the House. petition of the merchants and traders, his Lord Camden retorted, that as precelordship did not conceive stood in need of dents, if good, merited every respectful the collaterai aid of oral evidence, which, attention, he sincerely hoped the House however, was ready to be produced at the would not reject the adoption of a particubar if the House deemed such evidence lar mode, merely because the Commons necessary. The general principles of the had thought fit to accept it in the exami. Bill be inveighed against, as so many nation of witnesses at their bar. glaring infringements on the constitution, The Duke of Richmond was strenuous and consequently fraught with every polis for finishing the altercation, by observing, tical evil to be apprehended from despo- that if the House really wished for informtism in the extreme.
ation, the most likely method to obtain it, The Earl of Sandwich entirely dissented deserved the preference; and, in the noble in opinion from the illustrious marquis, he duke's opinion, it would much better wished that evidence might be called in answer the proposed end, to have Mr. support of the allegations contained in Barclay primarily propound the questions, each petition, for as he was confident that than that that House should propose them most of the noble lords present were either at second hand. If, however, the latter partially mistaken in, or wholly misunder- method was agreed on, the noble duke was stood the nature of, the American fishery, ready to acquiesce, although it would dehis lordship proposed on the part of the tain the members longer from that dinner, bill to have such evidences called as in his to which their hunger, betrayed in their opinion would elucidate the several facts, petulance, stimulated them to repair. and communicate that species of informa- | The House rejecting the idea of Mr. non necessary for the House to be pos- Barclay propounding any questions to the
evidence, it was agreed, that the usual | America would stop the fishery in time: forms of the House should be observed that the only materials for building their
Then Seth Jenkins, a Quaker, was called fishing vessels got from London, were in, and, upon his affirmation, acquainted sails and rigging: that there is an Act the House, “ That he was a mariner, and which prevents the pressing of the men is well acquainted with the island of Nan- employed in the New England fishery: tucket : that the number of inhabitants that the money arising from this fishery upon the said island is between 5 and amounts to abount 330,0001.: that the 6,000, who are almost all employed in the Quakers are of a peaceable disposition, fisheries : that the number of vessels be- and did not send any delegates to the conlonging to the said island is 140 sail, eight gress: that they chuse but one represenof which are employed in the coasting | tative: that they drink tea: that they trade, and the rest in the fisheries : that were no ways concerned in the destruction the said island is about 15 miles long, and of the tea: that they reside chiefly upon 3 broad; distant from the main 7 leagues : the island, and are no great politicians: that it has but one harbour : that the that he never heard of any persecution at produce of the said island will not maintain Halifax on account of religion, but has above 20 families: that nine tenths of the heard formerly of persecution on account inhabitants are Quakers : that the vessels of religion at Massachuset's Bay : that employed in the whale fishery sail at all sea- though the people of Nantucket would sons : that the limits of the whale fishery not by choice go to another part of extend to Falkland's Island and the coast of America, where the trade was reAfrica : that their fishing vessels are gene- strained, yet they would prefer going rally 12 months on their voyage, sometimes there rather than to Halifax : that these 14 months : that this island is supplied with people have not entered into any combicorn from the provinces of Carolina, -New nation not to import goods from Great · York, Virginia, and Rhode Island : that Britain, and that they think this Bill will it is supplied with manufactures from restrain them from fishing after the 1st of London: that all their oil comes to Great June next.” Whereupon the clause in Britain, except a little, which is consumed the Bill relating to the island of Nantucket in the colonies : that if the inhabitants of was read in the engrossed Bill, whereby it this island are restrained from fishing, appeared that some words having by misthey would wait quietly till the Act was take been omitted in the printed Bill, was repealed, but that they could not subsist the reason of the witness's being of opiabove a month: that the inhabitants might nion, that this Bill would restrain them be under the necessity of removing from from any fishery after the 1st of June the island, but would not go to Halifax, next. The witness being further exait being a military government: that the mined, acquainted the House, “ That vessels from England employed in the there are very few others than the whale fishery have little or no success in it, islanders who have any shares in their , owing to their not understanding it: that fishery: that if the Bill passes they will this island formerly belonged to the pro not be able to get any provisions, without vince of New York, at present it belongs which they cannot carry on their fisheries : to Massachuset's Bay: that no other men that the provinces of New England and would, if trade is stopt, carry on the Massachuset's Bay have no superfluity of whale fishery, as they do not understand provision to supply them with: that New the nature of it: that the people of Nan- | England is supplied with provisions from tucket, if their fishery is stopt, would not Baltimore, Pennsylvania, and Carolina : get employment from others : that their that provisions were sent to the army in craft would be entirely lost, as they could the last war from Connecticut : that there not get purchasers for them : that the is not a sufficiency raised in New England Jands in Nova Scotia are in general very for their own consumption: that they barren, except some in the Bay of Fundy, supply the West Indies with live cattle, and some German settlements: that the and can supply Nantucket with beef and lands in the Bay of Fundy are fertilized pork, but not bread, not having sufficient by being often overflowed: that the inha. for themselves: that Newfoundland 18 bitants of Nantucket are supplied with supplied with provisions from New York, their materials for the fishery from Lon- | Jersey, Pensylvania, and Maryland: that don: that they have no stores laid in: one reason of their wanting provisions, that the non-importation agreement in the great quantity consumed in the fishery: and that so many men are island of Nantucket, but that he knows employed in the fisheries, that there there is a trade carried on from there in are not enough left at home to cut fish: that four of the provinces in New tivate the land, but if not employed in England do not raise bread sufficient for the fishery might, in time, be able to their own consumption, and that he has raise more provisions: that if the people of knowo great quantities of bread sent to the continent would or could send them Boston from London and New York: provisions, they would have no money to that he does not know of any immediate pay for them if the fishery was stopt, but substitute for bread the people of Nan. if it is not stopt they could pay for them : tucket could eat : that if the fishery is that there are many sheep raised on the stopt, the men employed in it cannot turn island of Nantucket : that considerable their hands to any other business : that quantities of oats and Indian corn are sent the restraint upon the Nantucket whale from Massachuset's Bay to the West fishery is taken off by a clause in the Bill : Indies."
that he don't know if any other persons Mr. Brooke Watson acquainted the are concerned with them in their fishing House, “ That he was an American mer- ships : that they have all the materials for chant, and well acquainted with the building their ships from England, except fisheries in North America : that he had / timber; that the indulgence given by the been examined at the bar of the House of Bill to the people of Nantucket, he fears, Commons on that subject: that in his will be of little consequence to them : passage to North America, in 1766, he that the Americans pay for the goods from made out a State of the American fishery Great Britain by the profits of their in 1764; which State he carefully cor. fisheries, and by the money they get for rected from the best information on his the ships which they build in America, arrival in North America ;” and then and load with goods for the West Indies, produced the said State. He then ac where they receive sugars for their goods quainted the House, “ That the Ame. which they bring to Great Britain, where rican fisheries were much increased since they and the ships are sold : that if the 1764: that remittances were received for Bill passes, the Americans cannot make American fish from Spain, Portugal, and any returns to Great Britain for goods, Russia: that large quantities of New | nor pay the debts they now owe: that the England rum are sent to Quebec, for merchants in London are not concerned which they return money, bills of ex- in the property of the American fisheries : change on merchants in London, and that the people of Nantucket cannot be some wheat : that it was too copious a sub- supplied with flour from Quebec, because ject for him to enter into a detail of at Quebec they have only a number of the general state of trade between mills sufficient to grind corn for themGreat Britain and America: that his selves, but that they may have a supply account of the exports from Great from other provinces : that the weather is Britain to America was made up so severe at Quebec that the mills cannot about the time of passing the Stamp work above seven months in the year : Act: that a committee of merchants that he can't tell, if the other provinces in being appointed to draw up a state America should return to their allegiance, of the then trade between Great Bri- whether this Bill would affect Nantucket: tain and América, each merchant wrote that by this Bill, the people of one prothe amount of his exportation from vince being made answerable for another, Great Britain upon a piece of paper, but Nantucket will not receive her usual supdid not sigp his name to it, and put it into ply of sustenance: that though the inhaa box, and the whole amount is specified bitants of Nantucket are the obedient subin the paper he had delivered in, or as near jects to the laws of this country, and are, as could be: that the merchants here ge- and have been, acting with all possible nerally deliver in at the Custom-house an precaution, yet they must suffer on the acinvoice of one third more than is really count of others who may be refractory." shipped, and that no officer of the cus Mr. Benjamin Lister acquainted the toms can make an exact estimate of what House, “ That he was a merchant adven18 exported to America : that the people turer in the Newfoundland fishery for 38 of North Carolina cannot afford to clothe years: that he goes to Newfoundland themselves so well as those of the other every summer, and is a large dealer in that provinces : that he never was at the trade: that he thinks, that if the American