and confequently of dependants on the will of the miniftry. That for that reafon, he fhould always be against it, and hoped every gentlemen there would join with him. That as feveral members had offended their conftituents by their parliamentary conduct, now was the time to regain their affection, by oppofing this meafure, and thereby demonftrafing that any former offence they might have given, arose only from error and miftake, not from principle." Mr. Flood was then called upon to know whether the refolution he had propofed ftood fingly, or was only preparative to fome other which where to follow. He replied, that for his part, he had no other motion to make, nor did he know of any other. Counsellor Hellen in a very long fpeech, fpoke to the legality of the meafure, and that therein, the King had done nothing but what he was empowered to do by feyeral Acts of Parliament; but did not touch in the leaft on the propriety or expediency of it. Mr. Lodge Morris replied," that many things might be ftrictly and literally legal, which were nevertheless very inexpedient and highly improper. The Crown in the firft inftance, from ignorance, or misinformation of the real ftate of this nation, might in this meafure intend well. But whoever advised it to be carried into execution was highly criminal, fince it was concluded not only without asking the advice of this house, but even contrary to the folemn advice it had given." Mr. Prime Serjeant urged, "that this refolution was not only improper, but even illegal, as it was contrary to exprefs Acts of Parliament, which orders the chief governor and the commiffioners to pay all officers falaries out of the revenues."-And the feveral claufes refpecting them were read to the house. Mr. Ogle fpoke very forcibly against the meafure. He faid, "that in this cafe, there was a great refemblance to feveral felons, who by taking care to fculk behind the ftrict letter of the law, did not care what wickednefs they committed, if they could by a flaw in an indictment or any law quirk efcape with impunity. That he was not afraid to declare, that whoever it was that advised this measure, he was an enemy to the king, and a traitor to this kingdom. That we had here men who were minifters, indeed, but he was fure they were not minifters of grace." Mr. Flood rofe again, and told the houfe, that fince he found his motion laboured under fome difficulties, he would withdraw it, and in its place would fubftitute another, which F f 2 he he could not conceive was liable to any objection. moved the Houfe to come to this refolution. He then "Refolved, that this Houfe will make no alterations in the revenue laws, which fhall tend to give effect to the dividing the board of Excife from the board of Cuftoms, and the multiplying of commiffioners, contradictory to the advice of this Houfe, fhewn in the refolution which had been then read." Mr. Malone faid,, this refolution was very nugatory; for, if a negative fhould be put upon it, it would then imply that this Houfe would make alterations in the Revenue Laws, that fhould tend to give fuch effect." Mr. Flood then amended his motion thus:-"That this House will refuse their confent to any law that shall fend, &c. While this amendment was inferting in the motion, the minifterial cabal were whifpering together; and Mr. Maion having got his cue, moved to amend the refolution, by inferting between the word law and the word that, thefe words, However beneficial they may appear to the public fervice. He then owned, that this amendment would throw abfurdity on the whole refolution, and that if it was carried, he intended a further amendment, by omiting all the remainder of the refolution. This low chicane, this infamous method of destroying a refolution, by a contradictory amendment did not efcape the fevere and fpirited animadverfions of Mr. Ogle.—Mr. Maton replied with fome warmth, and was as warmly an fwered by Mr. Ogle. Mr. Flood spoke very forcibly against the amendment.-Mr. Malone faid, "that the worst that could be faid, was that the crown had not followed the advice the Houfe had given that there was no obligation on the crown always to follow fuch advice as might be given. That the crown had by the conftitution a negative voice in every bill brought for the Royal Affent ;-that when the Royal Affent is refufed; it is certainly going against the advice of both lords and commons, expreffed by the bill which is presented. That this had been done; and that the commons have refufed their affent to bills fent down from the lords, and the lords have done the fame by bills fent up from the commons; in every one of which inftances there was an acting against advice folemnly given.' Mr. Flood replied to Mr. Malone; and then Mr. Conolly rofe, and faid, "that though he should ever oppofe the creation of new offices, and the increase of national expence, yet, as the appointments were now made, he was of opinion they ought ought to be provided for. But that he fhould be very glad that all commiffioners of excife and cuftoms fhould be made incapable of fitting in the house, as they are in Great Britain. Mr. Scott hoped gentlemen would not fuffer themselves to be captivated with the eloquence of the gentlemen, who moved for this refolution, but rather would confider the advice than the abilities of the advifer." Mr. Barry Barry said, "that the advice of this house was held fo facred in the affair of the augmentation bill, that royal prerogative gave way to it." Sir Thomas Butler fpoke against the motion; he urged "that the measures fo much condemned, would be found very falutary, and have good effects, that it would encreafe the revenue fo much, that he dared to answer the commiffioners would readily forego their falaries, to have fecured to them only the half of the encreased revenue in consequence of this measure." Mr. Ponfonby declared, "that he was of a contrary opinion; was very confident this new measure would be attended with an additional expence, which would prove greater than could be borne." Mr. Fitzgibbons fpoke for the refolution, and Sir George Macartney against it: and that the prefent inferior officers were not fufficiently numerous to collect the revenue as it ought to be collected. Mr. Ponfonby denied this affertion, and declared there no need of an increase---Mr. Le Hunt spoke next in favour the motion, and Sir George Macartney afferted, that the exports of this last year had exceeded thofe of the preceding, to the amount of 400,000l. therefore more officers were wanting. Mr. Rowley fpoke against the amendment; after which Mr. Flood and Sir George Macartney, had fome farcaftic altercations with each other, which were put an end to, by fome humorous expreffions of Mr. Scott, and then the question being put, for receiving Mr. Mafon's amendment, and the Houfe dividing---there were told, Majority 10 The Provost then arofe, and propofed to poftpone the decifion of the main queftion, and colonel Burton opposed him, and urged it to be put directly, and it being put, the Houfe divided, and there were told. For the Refolution, 119 107 Majority 12 It was now paft ten o'clock at night; and the debate had def tinued near eight hours without intermiffion; yet late as it ther was, Mr. Barry Barry rofe to make a motion: he faid, "It had been the conftant cultom of parliaments to inflict punishments on their own members when they had offended the Houfe; and that punishment was, either fufpenfion, confinement, or expulfion." (He then read feveral precedents out of the journals of the house.) "That for his part, whenever the dignity of the house demanded to be afferted, hefhould ever be ready to ftand forth to defend it, and punish every infult upon it; but at the fame time he should ever incline to lenity, and wifh to punish in the most merciful manner at prefent the confequence of the houfe ought to be maintained, fome of its members had been guilty of an high mifdemeanor, in contempt of the house, and for example to others, ought not to go unpunished; he would therefore move the house, that fuch members of the house who have accepted commiffions at the new board of excife, contrary to the folemn refolution of the houfe againft that measure, may, for fuch contempt be fufpended from fitting in this house during the time they fhall act under fuch commiffions. L. Kildare defired that the members meant in this motion (Sir William Osborne, Mr. Mason, Mr. Waller, and Mr. Montgomery,) might withdraw while the debate continued. This was ftrongly opposed by the Prime Serjeant, who spoke to order. "He faid, that when any member of that houfe was accused of any crime or misdemeanor, it was the conftant practice for him to have notice of it from the member, who moved against him, that on fuch a day, he would move the house against him, that he might have time to prepare for his defence; as the moft innocent perfon could not always be ready to defend himself at a moment's warning against a concerted attack. Lord Kildare replied to Mr. Prime Serjeant, and colonel Burton faid, he thought fome diftinction ought to be made between those who were abfolutely new commiffioners, and those who being in the former commiffions, were continued in this. There was one gentleman (Sir William Ofborne) who could not be faid to be any way culpable; and he thought the indignation of the house should be rather directed against the advisers of this measure, than those who had accepted the places. Colonel Brown rose up to tell a ftory, when a great army of the Ruffians attacked the king of Pruffia, they were beat, but the Prufkan monarch, not content with one victory, followed the routed Ruffians, and attempted another, but met with a found thrashing. Mr. Flood faid, that he did not think any diftinction ought to be made between the old and new commiffioners, fince all who who were included in the new patent for the Excife were equally culpable in accepting places which they knew were obnoxious to the house.. Mr. Talbot and Mr. Bufhe replied to Mr. Flood, and were aniwered by Mr. Barry Barry, Sir Thomas Butler then rose in behalf of the commiffioners, and urged that they had not hewn any contempt of the house, as they accepted their places before the refolutions were taken against them. -Mr. Mafon Counfellor Shell fpoke on the fame fide.(whofe countenance was greatly altered from that alertnefs and fatisfaction he fhewed the preceeding Tuesday, while he was skipping about the house, and exultingly receiving the congratulations of his friends during the reading of the patent) then arofe, and fpoke in his own defence, and was anfwered by Lord Kildare. The Prime Serjeant ftrained every nerve to exculpate the commiffioners, and averred, they had not offended any law of the land or rule of parliament, as the house had not paffed any vote, that no member of it fhould accept of any fuch place. The speaker then asked of the houfe, whether on putting the queftion the gentlemen who were the objects of it were to be allowed to vote? Mr. Malone urged, that they were; and then Mr. Huffey arofe, and with his ufual eloquence, recapitulated every argument that had been used in the defence of the guilty members. Their being present in the house while the former debates were carrying on this question, was a fufficient notification to them of the fenfe of the houfe; and rendered them as culpable as a formal vote would have done. Mr. Scot replied, and was anfwered by Mr. Flood. Mr. Barry Barry then, as it was late, offered to withdraw his motion to another opportunity. But the Attorney General oppofed it, and would have the affair decided at prefent. Mr. Talbot urged the fame, and Mr. Malone hoped that the queftion might not even appear in the journals of the house. Mr. Burke, jun. then spoke in his ufual way. Sir William Ofborne, Mr. Waller and Mr. Mafon feverally spoke in defence of themselves, and for the immediate decifion. Mr. Flood, Mr. Barry Barry, and Lord Kildare infifted on having a fuller hearing of this matter. the question was put whether Mr. Barry might have leave to withdraw his motion, and carried in the negative without a divifion. The main question was then put, and also carried in the negative without any divifion; and the houfe adjourned till Thursday, it being then within four minutes of one o'clock in the morning. Thursday, Feb. 13. And The house being met according to adjournment, from Tuesday |