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sundry unsound matters in his doctrine (as many of his sermons tasted of some sour leaven or other), yet thus I carried myself towards him. Matters of smaller weight, and so covertly discovered that no great offence to the church was to be feared in them, I wholly passed by, as one that discerned nothing of them, or had been unfurnished of replies; for others of great moment, and so openly delivered, as there was just cause of fear lest the truth and church of God should be prejudiced and perilled by it, and such as the conscience of my duty and calling would not suffer me altogether to pass over, this was my course; to deliver, when I should have just cause by my text, the truth of such doctrine as he had otherwise taught, in general speeches, without touch of his person in any sort; and farther at convenient opportunity to confer with him in such points.

According to which determination, whereas he had taught cer. tain things concerning predestination otherwise than the word of God doth, as it is understood by all churches professing the gospel, and not unlike that wherewith Coranus sometime troubled his church, I both delivered the truth of such points in a general doctrine, without any touch of him in particular, and conferred with him also privately upon such articles. In which conference, I remember, when I urged the consent of all churches and good writers against him that I knew; and desired, if it were otherwise, what authors he had seen of such doctrine: he answered me, that his best author was his own reason ; which I wished him to take heed of, as a matter standing with Christian modesty and wisdom in a doctrine not received by the church, not to trust to his own judgment so far as to publish it before he had conferred with others of his profession labouring by daily prayer and study to know the will of God, as he did, to see how they understood such doctrine. Notwithstanding he, with wavering, replied, that he would some other time deal more largely in the matter. I wished him, and prayed him not so to do, for the peace of the church, which, by such means, might be hazarded;' seeing he could not but think, that men, who make any conscience of their ministry, will judge it a necessary duty in them to teach the truth, and to convince the contrary.

Another time, upon like occasion of this doctrine of his, “ That the assurance of that we believe by the word, is not so certain, as of that we perceive by sense;" I both taught the doctrine otherwise, namely, the assurance of faith to be greater, which assured both of things above, and contrary to all sense and human under


standing, and dealt with him also privately upon that point: according to which course of late, when as he had taught, " That the church of Rome is a true church of Christ, and a sanctified church by profession of that truth, which God hath revealed unto us by his Son, though not a pure and perfect church ;" and farther, “That he doubted not, but that thousands of the fathers, which lived and died in the superstitions of that church, were saved, because of their ignorance, which excuseth them;" misalleging to that end a text of Scripture to prove it: the matter 1 Tim. i. being of set purpose openly and at large handled by hiin, and of that moment, that might prejudice the faith of Christ, encourage the ill-affected to continue still in their damnable ways, and others weak in faith to suffer themselves easily to be seduced to the destruction of their souls ; I thought it my most bounden duty to God and to his church, whilst I might have opportunity to speak with him, to teach the truth in a general speech in such points of doctrine.

At which time I taught, “That such as die, or have died at any time in the church of Rome, holding in their ignorance that faith which is taught in it, and namely, justification in part by works, could not be said by the Scriptures to be saved.” In which matter, foreseeing that if I waded not warily in it, I should be in danger to be reported (as hath fallen out since notwithstanding) to condemn all the fathers, I said directly and plainly to all men's understanding, “That it was not indeed to be doubted, but many of the fathers were saved; but the means (said I) was not their ignorance, which excuseth no man with God, but their knowledge and faith of the truth, which it appeareth God vouchsafed them, by many notable monuments and records extant in all ages." Which being the last point in all my sermon, rising so naturally from the text I then propounded, as would have occasioned me to have delivered such matter, notwithstanding the former doctrine had been sound; and being dealt in by a general speech, without touch of his particular ; I looked not that a matter of controversy would have been made of it, no more than had been of like dealing in former time. But, far otherwise than I looked for, Mr. Hooker, shewing no grief of offence taken at my speech all the week long, the next sabbath, leaving to proceed upon

his ordinary text, professed to preach again that he had done the day before, for some question that his doctrine was drawn into, which he desired might be examined with all severity.

So proceeding, he bestowed his whole time in that discourse,

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concerning his former doctrine, and answering the places of Scripture which I had alleged to prove that a man dying in the church of Rome is not to be judged by the Scriptures to be saved. In which long speech, and utterly impertinent to his text, under colour of answering for himself, he impugned directly and openly to all men's understanding, the true doctrine which I had delivered ; and, adding to his former points some other like (as willingly one error follows another) that is, “That the Galatians joining, with faith in Christ, circumcision, as necessary to salvation, might not be saved : and that they of the church of Rome may be saved by such: faith of Christ as they had with a general repentance of all their errors, notwithstanding their opinion of justification in part by their works and merits :" I was necessarily, though not willingly, drawn to say something to the points he objected against sound doctrine; which I did in a short speech in the end of my sermon, with protestation of so doing not of any sinister affection to any man, but to bear witness to the truth according to my calling; and wished, if the matter should needs farther be dealt in, some other more convenient way might be taken for it. Wherein, I hope, my dealing was manifest to the consciences of all indifferent hearers of me that day, to have been according to peace, and without any uncharitableness, being duly considered.

For that I conferred with him the first day, I have shewed that the cause requiring of me the duty, at the least not to be altogether silent in it, being a matter of such consequence, the time also being short wherein I was to preach after him, the hope of the fruit of our communication being small upon experience of former conferences, my expectation being that the church should be no farther troubled with it, upon the motion I made of taking some other course of dealing ; I suppose my deferring to speak with him till some tit opportunity, cannot in charity be judged uncharitable.

The second day, his unlooked-for opposition with the former reasons, made it to be a matter that required of necessity some public answer ; which being so temperate as I have shewed, if notwithstanding it be censured as uncharitable, and punished so grievously as it is, what should have been my punishment, if (without all such cautions and respects as qualified my speech) I had before all, and in the understanding of all, so reproved him offending openly, that others might have feared to do the like? Which yet, if I had done, might have been warranted by the rule and charge of the apostle, “Them that offend openly, rebuke openly, that the rest may also fear ;” and by his example, who, when Peter in this very case which is now between us, bad, not in preaching, but in a matter of conversation, not gone with a right foot, as was fit for the truth of the gospel, conferred not privately with him, but, as his own rule required, reproved bim openly before all, that others might hear, and fear, and not dare to do the like. All which reasons together weighed, I hope, will shew the manner of my dealing to have been charitable, and warrantable in every sort.

The next sabbath-day after this, Mr. Hooker kept the way he had entered into before, and bestowed his whole hour and more only upon the questions he had moved and maintained; wherein he so set forth the agreement of the church of Rome with us, and their disagreement from us, as if we had consented in the greatest and weightiest points, and differed only in certain smaller matters : which agreement noted by him in two chief points, is not such as he would have made men believe. The one, in that he said, “ They acknowledge all men sinners, even the blessed Virgin,” though some freed her from sin; for the council of Trent holdeth, that she was free from sin. Another, in that he said, “They teach Christ's righteousness to be the only meritorious cause of taking away sin, and differ from us only in the applying of it :" for Thomas Aquinas their chief schoolman, and archbishop Catherinus teach,“ That Christ took away only original sin, and that the rest are to be taken away by ourselves ;" yea, the council of Trent teacheth, “That righteousness whereby we are righteous in God's sight, is an inherent righteousness ;" which must needs be of our own works, and cannot be understood of the righteousness inherent only in Christ's person, and accounted unto us. Moreover he taught the same time, “ That neither the Galatians, nor the church of Rome, did directly overthrow the foundation of justification by Christ alone, but only by consequent, and therefore might well be saved; or else neither the churches of the Lutherans, nor any which hold any manner of error, could be saved ; because (saith he) every error by consequent overthroweth the foundation." In whieh discourses, and such-like, he bestowed his whole time and more ; which, if he had affected either the truth of God, or the peace of the church, he would truly not have done.

Whose example could not draw me to leave the Scripture I took in hand, but standing about an hour to deliver the doctrine

Mark. jii. 17.


Gal. ii. 11. 14.

of it, in the end, upon just occasion of the text, leaving sundry other bis unsound speeches, and keeping nie still to the principal, I confirmed the believing the doctrine of justification by Christ only, to be necessary to the justification of all that should be saved, and that the church of Rome directly denieth, that a man is saved by Christ, or by faith alone, without the works of the law. Which my answer, as it was most necessary for the service of God, and the church, so was it without any immodest or reproachful speech to Mr. Hooker ; whose unsound and wilful dealings in a cause of so great importance to the faith of Christ, and salvation of the church, notwithstanding I knew well what speech it deserved, and what some zealous earnest man of the spirit of John and James, surnamed Boanerges, sons of thunder,

would have said in such a case; yet I chose rather to content 2 Sam. vii. myself in exhorting him to revisit his doctrine, as Nathan the

prophet did the device, which, without consulting with God, he had of himself given to David, concerning the building of the temple : and with Peter the apostle, to endure to be withstood in such a case, not unlike unto this. This in effect was that which passed between us concerning this matter, and the invectives I made against him, wherewith I am charged: which rehearsal, I hope, may clear me (with all that shall indifferently consider it) of the blames laid upon me for want of duty to Mr. Hooker in not conferring with him, whereof I have spoken sufficiently already; and to the high commission, in not revealing the matter to them, which yet now I am farther to answer. answer is, that I protest, no contempt nor wilful neglect of any lawful authority stayed me from complaining unto them, but these reasons following:

First, I was in some hope, that Mr. Hooker, notwithstanding he had been over-carried with a show of charity to prejudice the truth, yet when it should be sufficiently proved, would have acknowledged it, or at the least induced with peace, that it might be offered without any offence to him, or to such as would receive it ; either of which would have taken away any cause of just complaint. When neither of these fell out according to my expectation and desire, but that he replied to the truth, and objected against it, I thought he might have some doubts and scruples in himself; which yet, if they were cleared, he would either embrace sound doctrine, or at least suffer it to have its course : which hope of him I nourished so long, as the matter was not bitterly and immodestly handled between us.


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