is an advantagious Post for harrassing the Country being favorable for his other Post at Portsmouth. This conduct was owing to Advice received from New York by an express Boat, which makes it probable Sir Henry Clinton is under no great apprehensions from our operations against New York. At the Southward near Charles Town, 45 of the Enemies Horse were taken lately by surprise by a Party of Colo. Lee's without any loss on our Side. Flags of truce are daily arriving here with unfortunate & distressed families from Charles Town & Savanah, many of whom are forced away. By the last Letters from Gen'l Green of the 17th of July, we are informed that a Reinforcement has been received at Charles Town, tho' not designed for that place. They were engaged to come over as settlers of the Country and were not to fight except in the Defence of their own Settlements. Finding a necessity for them at Charles Town they were embodied, which occasioned a mutiny, & in one regiment One Hundred were killed & wounded before the others would submit. Ten sail of the Line and 8000 Troops are going from Spain, I think from the Port of Cadiz on a secret Expedition. Many are the Conjectures of their Destination. This intelligence by Mr. Carmicles Letter. I hope in case they should be successful they will not send their Garrisons taken to New York to fight against us, as they have done in the late history of Pensacola. The-enclosed Instructions tis sup[posed] sufficiently explains the dubious clause in the Ordinance passed in March last, by confining such seizing to the High Seas or between high water and Low water marks. I shall be glad to hear from you whenever you may find it convenient to write, and am with great respect and esteem Your Excellency's most obedt. & very Humble Servt. His Excellency Governor Clinton.

[No. 3908.]

Correspondence Between Colonel Hay and Colonel Timothy Pickering,

Q. M. G., in Regard to their Dispute over Forage.

Poughkeepsie, July 5th 1781.

Sir, Having appointed Captain William Brown, my Assistant, for the purpose of executing the inclosed law relative to the sequestered or confiscated Estates in West Chester County, I have desired him to become the bearer of this and shew you his instructions from me on that Subject, hoping such part of them with which you are more immediately connected will correspond with your ideas of the mode in which this business ought to be transacted, but if you think any Amendment or alteration necessary I will with pleasure enter into either the one or the other as far as the duties of my Office will permit. I am respectfully Sir, your most obt. Srt.

To Colonel Timothy Pickering.

Udny Hay.

The following came enclosed in the foregoing letter.

And be it further enacted by the authority aforesaid, that the Commissioners of Sequestration, for the county of West Chester, do permit the State Agent or either of his assistants to collect any forage or other supplies for the Army which may be found on any of the Sequestered or Confiscated Estates in the County of West Chester, and which otherwise it would be the duty of the said Commissioners to collect and Dispose of, and that the said forage and other supplies shall be disposed of by the said Agent, as other supplies furnished by the State for the use of the Army. And further That it shall be lawful for the Commissioners of Sequestration, in the Several Counties, and they are hereby required to deliver to the State Agent, or one of his assistants all such Beef Cattle, Sheep or Swine, as they now have or hereafter shall have in their possession as Sequestered Goods to be delivered and disposed of by the said Agent, as other supplies furnished by this State, for the use of the army.

A True Extract taken from "An Act relative to the office of State Agent 1st July 1781)

No. 3 From Udny Hay S. Agent to Tim: Pickering Q. M. G.

(passed

Udny Hay S. Agent.

No. 4 From Timothy Pickering Q. M. G. to Udny Hay State Agent.

Camp near Dobbs ferry July 26th, 1781. Sir, Your letter of yesterday's date, which you handed me last evening, I have read with attention. Divers passages in it would lead a stranger to suppose that a quarrel subsisted between us on the score of forage consumed by the Army in this part of the State of New York, and that I had discovered no small aversion to an amicable settlement. It even seems to be intimated that I entertained perverse, or at least very singular sentiments on the subject; and that I could lay

them aside and adopt others with as much ease as I could throw by an Old coat and put on a new one, cut more to the fancy of the Tailor. But that my sentiments are not singular you have yourself borne witness, in telling me you found the same among the gentlemen in general in the army with whom you had spoken; tho' in a few words you convinced them of their mistake. They are sentiments to which some at least of the owners of lands here have entertained, who visting their old habitations, expressed their satisfaction that the army was using their forage which otherwise would either fall into the enemy's hands or perish on the ground.

Now

How an opinion so palpably erronious (as you suggest this is) should so generally prevail without some foundation for it in reason, I own does appear extraordinary. I am misinformed, if this opinion is not current in the French as well as in the American army. At the bead of the latter I may quote the opinion of the Commander in Chief; which being known, was sufficient to teach me caution how as a public officer, subject to his command, I acted in direct opposition to it. altho' for an act of injustice no man should shelter under any name, however great, yet as an apology for a supposed error in judgment, one may certainly be allowed to quote the opinion of a superior. But I would not have done it in this Letter, had you not told me that you had already written, I suppose to the Governour or some gentlemen in power in the state, that the commander in chief not only declined intermeddling at all in the matter but even giving an opinion on the subject: By which I perceive that the flame which you tell me is already kindled against me is to be increased. But I am wholly ignorant of myself if either an arrest which you have repeatedly held up to my view, or even the actual imprisonment of my Person, for a debt really or supposed to be due from the United States to any particular state, or any individual subject of it, would at all influence my determination. A seizure of my Person or property for a debt contracted by me as a public officer, I should indeed consider as an act of cruel injustice. And even if it were warranted by law (of which however I may at least express a doubt) yet 'tis an act, against which the common sense of mankind revolts. This is so true, that notwithstanding the sufferings, for many years past, of thousands of public Creditors, not two instances I believe can be adduced where the person or property of the public officers have been touched. It would be an absurdity to suppose that the public creditors deemed the public officers to be sureties for the debts they contracted on public account, it being universally known that the riches of the wealthiest Officer in America bear no proportion to the public debts contracted in some Departments.

In mentioning the opinion of the Commander in Chief, I have no idea of exposing him to censure. For I trust the time is not yet arrived when an American may not think independently, & speak what he thinks.

That any one should imagine I wished to deprive this state of one particle of its property, is doing me great injustice. I have seen its exertions-I have been a witness to its sufferings-I have represented them to Congress-I have spoken of them on all occasions. To Congress I said " The people in the State of New York are under very peculiar disadvantages. Their trade with the neighbouring states is so confined-the Troops have been so long unpaid-& the public officers there have for so long time past been furnished with so little money-at the same time that the army has drawn from it such considerable supplies, money of consequence must be extremely scarce. For its quota of supplies not money but state certificates were given. In addition to these supplies the army make large draughts on this state for forage, lumber, wood, &c. and the service of teams: For all which no consideration can in general be given but certificates, & these not receivable in taxes; whereby the inhabitants of that state are exceedingly distressed. There is nothing which the army wants and that state can furnish which is not taken by impress, when not otherwise to be obtained which often happens. The people submit to these oppressions (for such undoubtedly they are, tho' unavoidable) with astonishing patience, partly from a conviction that the articles so obtained are essential to the army, & partly thro' the influence of the military, who either are in fact, or are expected to be called to enforce the execution if opposed. Other states out of the army's reach, experience no such oppression. The inhabitants make their Own terms for supply and services required of them; and without money, or promise of speedy payment, refuse to yield either."

To Mr. Morris the Superintendent of the finances of the United States, I have represented the distress of Colonel Hughes D. Q. M. of this state, for want of money-that his small warrant of 20,000 new emission dollars on the loan office of this State was

not yet paid off-that a considerable balance yet remained due, which he could not obtain that this was his only resource for money from the time of his Appointment to this day & that "almost all persons of course remained unpaid for services and supplies (Then subjoining "These added to the Debts of the old Department would have long since put a stop to public business here, were there not peculiar energy in the executive of the State, and a military force at hand to carry into effect every necessary order. If any relief can be afforded, I know not where it can be better applied. It is due to the public Officers, and to the inhabitants of the State. The United States will also be benefitted, for the doing the public business here wholly without money, increases the public debt beyond conception."

I have said thus much to justify myself from groundless aspersions; and in a matter so interesting to me as a man, and still more as a public officer, I trust you will excuse me, even if you should deem me tedious.

In adjusting this business, I have no other object in view than to avoid an improper charge against the United States. Any Certificate of facts, with that caution, I am content to give. To determine with any degree of precission, the separate Quantities of forage consumed on confiscated Estates and the lands of individuals, is beyond the power of calculation. I therefore would not choose to attempt it: nor will it be just (admitting the claim to some compensation to be right) that anything be allowed for forage destroyed on the ground, and not eaten by the public Cattle; for such will only be lost as the whole would have been but for the accident that the army has taken post here. To avoid therefore a perplexing discussion, I am content that the number of Cattle eating public forage should be ascertained; tho' not in the mode you propose; for it would be an indignity to a public officer to submit to it. However, I will cause the necessary returns to be made, by which the number of such cattle may be determined as accurately as circumstances will admit.

If I comprehend the meaning of your proposition for fixing the value of the forage, thus applied to the use of the army, it is this- That if one ton of hay worth six pounds (or 15 dollars) will subsist any given number of horses one day, then that the United States should be charged the same sum for every like number of horses of the army for every day they subsisted on the forage growing in this County. But this I can never agree to. Its very situation within the enemy's lines, and at such a distance from a market must greatly lessen its value: for I presume it will not be suggested that a Market is at hand, Viz: the army, because this, by marching & rescuing the forage from the jaws of the enemy, has rendered it of any value at all. The pasturage in this County is also lessened in value because the lands lay desolate & waste, without inclosures, which obliges us to employ great numbers of herdsmen to watch the Cattle to prevent their going astray, To these considerations is to be added the general one, that pasturage which will subsist any number of Cattle one week, is far less valuable than the Quantity of Hay which shall support the same cattle as well during the same time.

I must also observe that Congress have for the present year demanded no forage of any state; and that the Prices must therefore be fixed by the public officers and the owners of forage. Six pounds per Ton for the best of hay, in this plentiful year, is beyond all reason. I have no idea of saddling the United States with such an enormous debt as that would create. The best upland hay delivered immediately from the field, after being cut and cured by the owner, will not be worth half the money. Nay I doubt whether more than one third of that price paid down in hard money (and in hard money the accounts of this state with the United States are to be finally settled) will be given for the best hay in any County in the State; much less should it be the price of hay within the enemys lines. These observations will also apply to every species of grain used for forage.

......

On these grounds I am ready to fix with you the value of the forage which shall be judged to be eaten by the numbers of Cattle ascertained as above mentioned, for which I should propose to give Certificates in some such form as this, viz: I certify that from the .......day of .horses & Oxen in the public service &... fat Cattle as nearly as the numbers could be ascertained, were subsisted on good pastures and meadows (the property of whom I am unable to determine) in the County of West Chester, in the State of New York. That during the same time the fields in general in that County lay desolate & waste, without inclosures, which rendered it necessary to employ considerable numbers of men as guards or herdsmen to watch the Creatures so pastured to prevent their going astray and being lost. That the parts of the County thus foraged were deemed to be within

the enemy's lines; & till the army marched down, were so totally in the enemy's power that the forage must have perished on the ground or been carried away by the enemy unless thus consumed by the army. I am &c Tim'y. Pickering Q. M. G.

No. 5 From Timothy Pickering Q. M. G. to His Excellency the President of Congress. Camp Near Dobbs ferry July 27th, 1781.

Sir, When the army moved into this County, particularly to this Quarter, so far within the enemy's lines, it was generally supposed by the Officers, that the forage growing on the desolate lands would be freely used by the army, without any claim for payment from the owners of the soil. This I knew was the prevailing opinion at Head Quarters as well as elsewhere. It was therefore a matter of no small surprise when the State agent appeared armed with a recent law of the State to take possession of all the forage growing on what are called Sequestered estates," to apply the same (it is true) to the use of the army, and take certificates for the amount. A copy of the law (as handed to me by the State agent) I beg leave to inclose. The principal agent (Colo. Hay) has at length come down, and pressed me for a decision. I told him what I understood to be the sentiments of the army in general, and the opinion of the Commander in Chief; and that I should not think it proper to act in opposition to the latter. After this Colonel Hay himself spoke to the general, who then (as he says) declined intermeddling in the matter, or even giving an opinion about it.

It was now agreed by Colo. Hay & me that he should state in writing his demands, to which I would give him an answer also in writing. This being done, but not to his satisfaction, he proposed that the matter should be laid before Congress, thro' the Delegates of the State. To this I had no objection. At the same time it seemed proper that I should communicate to your Excellency the substance of what had passed between Colonel Hay and me, on the subject. His two propositions, & my observations in consequence thereof, I do myself the honour to inclose.

How it happened that the same idea was taken up generally, & almost universally in the army, unless it had some foundation in reason, must appear a little extraordinary. What were the reasonings of the Officers on the subject I cannot determine. Many things from some obvious circumstances attending them, strike us forcibly as right or wrong, without any formal reasoning at all. Certain facts presented themselves here at the first view-as, that the Country was generally abandoned both by Whig and Torey-That the fields lay desolate & waste, without inclosures-that the forage growing there would have been carried off by the enemy or perished on the ground-& that it could generally be used by nobody save the army, & by that only on the spot where the forage grew. If I am not misinformed, the same sentiments prevail in the French as in the American army.

The question arising on this subject, and of which I request the decision of Congress, I take to be simply this. Whether the United States shall or shall not be charged with the value of the forage produced in this County, under the circumstances above mentioned, that has been or shall be consumed therein by the army? Of this I beg leave to ask as early a determination as possible.

*No. 6. From Robert Graham Esqr. Chairman of the Refugees assembled at White Plains 30 July 1781 to Colonel Timothy Pickering Q. M. Genl.

White Plains 30th July, 1781. Sir, Astonished at the information of an attempt being made, to take by force for the use of the army the produce of our farms, without making us the least reccm

On motion made Resolved unanimously that a letter be wrote to the Q. M. G. of the American Army demanding of him pay for what forage or other articles he has obtained from either of their farms & at the same time give him their opinions of his conduct as Q. M. G.

Resolved unanimously that Colo. Udny Hay State agent prepare a draught of said letter.

On the said letter being read, paragraph by paragraph, the same was unanimously agreed to

Extract from the proceedings of the Refugees of the County of West Chester at the White Plains on the 31st of July, 1781.

North Castle August ye 9th, 1781. (Attest)

Ebenezer S. Burling.